Discussion:
People in the Southwest Aloof & Distant?
(too old to reply)
Dave Thompson
2004-09-28 18:49:19 UTC
Permalink
This is not meant as a flame, it is an observation I seriously have
noticed, having once lived in NC but now living in AZ for 8 years.
Note: I would post this in alt.culture.az or alt.culture.southwest, but I
didn't see such newsgroups.
az.politics, az.general, alt.culture.us.southwest. added them all in for
you.
People in the southwest seem more distant and--dare I say it--stuck-up
compared to the southeast or even Texas. I notice they never return phone
calls, they seem to not want you to ever show up at their home unannounced
That's because it's considered rude. People these days have little time off
and like to spend it with their families. If I was in the middle of a
project with my kids I know that I wouldn't like having to stop and
entertain visitors. As a matter orf fact I would politely tell them that I
was busy and maybe to call me and set up something we could all do later.

--even on a casual Sunday afternoon--they just seem so distant
and aloof, even ones who claim to be your friends act this way.
Maybe if you claim to be their friends you could honor their wishes and call
ahead? Are you showing up unannounced because you know that they don't have
the time to get together and this is a way to catch them while they are at
home?
On the other hand, in NC where I came from--and in TX where I visited a
week ago--my wife & I were showing up unannounced at people's homes she
knew but weren't necessarily very close friends with and everyone acted so
warm & friendly to our unannounced presence. They returned phone calls
much more
promptly and consistently. There wasn't that aloofness and cold,
distance-ness I have noticed from even our so-called friends in southern
AZ.
Well, you see, that's your problem. You come from the south. The rest of the
country doesn't measure itself against Texas or the south as far as culture
and behavior is concerned. There are regional differences all over the
country. When I lived in the south I did find people more friendly, but I
also found them to be more nosey and judgemental as well. Everyone seemed to
know everyone elses business and had an opinion on it as well. People also
gossiped more. I welcome living in the west and southwest because people
were more private and respect other people's privacy here.
I have asked others who transplanted here from the southeast, TX, et al,
thinking maybe it was just me--but in fact every single such person I've
asked has agreed with me 100% about this. Also, one college friend I knew
in NC lived awhile in California, and remarked herself about the exact
same thing.
People in the west are more independant. They are also a bit more proactive.
I found that people here are more likely to plan trips and family outings on
their free time. People in the south were more likely to stay home and
entertain. I suggest that you hook up with a church if you like that
extended family feel and fellowship. Otherwise think more like the people
around you and go out on your own and do something.
One friend I talked to last night, who has always lived in southern AZ--we
were asking if they wanted to do something with us for maybe 1 hour this
upcoming Saturday. Their remark was that we needed to learn that if you
want people to do anything with you you need to ask them weeks in advance.
WEEKS in advance? For a 1-hour visit? Is everyone that busy around here?
I'm sorry, but to me only people like Senators, the President, doctors, et
al--could possibly be THAT busy, and this friend is none of those.
I think this is just an extreme example. That's not the norm. Either your
friend is very busy or they don't want to spend time with you.
Many may be thinking that I am dealing specifically with people who don't
want to be our friends but are too nice to say so. In fact, though, if we
run into these people at church or what have you, they are so charming and
friendly.
Like I said, people are more independant and private. It could also be the
case that you are living in a bigger city now and people are just busier.
The pace in the south is definately slower than in Phoenix.

Sometimes when you do reach them on the phone even they also are.
But if you call them they never call back, ever. Even when it's a call of
"we're leaving for TX in 4 days, wondering if you could give us a ride to
the airport" (which is in town). They never call back, even to say "sorry
but we're tied up that day." And this is EVERY SINGLE PERSON practically
we meet around here that acts this way.
Let me give you a suggestion. Might it be that you are trying too hard and
people are turned off by it. It's like having a friend that's too needy.
Eventually you learn to keep them at a polite distance and manage the their
time around you. If you are showing up at people's houses unannounced and
begging rides I know I would look at the caller ID before I picked up the
phone. You also come across as very judgemental and unwilling to accept that
people do things differently here. Maybe this comes across to your friends
and they are tired of it.
I ask this seriously, not to flame: what is it about the southwestern US
that makes people so relatively aloof and distant, not wanting to be
bothered at all? I think it's ridiculous, and it so upsets me I'm
considering leaving on account of it.
Why is it that you think an entire region should adjust to your needs and
expectations? You are figuratively living in someone else's house. When you
are you either adapt and live by their rules or leave. When I lived in the
south I adjusted to people going at a slower pace and being a bit too
effusive and I got along fine.

I also lived in Oregon and California. At least in the west you don't have
to put up with Texans calling you a Yankee and trying to convince you that
everything is better in Texas all the time. We may be aloof in the west but
with big mouthed Texans the south shouldn't be complaining very much.
Beachcomber
2004-09-28 19:53:10 UTC
Permalink
People in the southwest seem more distant and--dare I say it--stuck-up
compared to the southeast or even Texas. I notice they never return phone
calls, they seem to not want you to ever show up at their home unannounced
As a transplanted person from the friendly midwest, I have found that
these generalizations are generally true about my neighbors. People
throughout the west are more concerned about their privacy, a little
more distant and aloof, a little more suspicious of strangers, and a
little bit harder to get to know. (California may be the exception,
but it is almost a separate country by itself).

Westerners are also more self-reliant and there are different
attitudes toward the police and authority. I think most westerners
think of the police as necessary, but not necessary the friendly or
helpful public servants that they usually are in the east or midwest.
In keeping with the western tradition, firearms are a bigger deal out
here in the west, probably considered the no. 1 method of self-defense
against the bad guys, and more widely accepted by the general public.

These are not necessary negative characteristics, just different from
someone who was from an area where neighbors think nothing of knocking
on your door an dropping by without advance notice, are more likely to
invite you to dinner or a neighborhood party, and look at the local
policeman as your friend.

Beachcomber
David Wright
2004-09-28 20:06:42 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:53:10 GMT, ***@xxx.yyy (Beachcomber)
wrote:

[snip]
Post by Beachcomber
Beachcomber
Just wondering: If you're a beachcomber, why are you posting in
desert-region newsgroups?
Serious Sam
2004-09-28 20:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wright
[snip]
Post by Beachcomber
Beachcomber
Just wondering: If you're a beachcomber, why are you posting in
desert-region newsgroups?
...maybe he's an ancient beachcomber...
Lobby Dosser
2004-09-28 21:42:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Serious Sam
Post by David Wright
[snip]
Post by Beachcomber
Beachcomber
Just wondering: If you're a beachcomber, why are you posting in
desert-region newsgroups?
...maybe he's an ancient beachcomber...
Oh, very good!
Beachcomber
2004-09-29 06:45:37 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:06:42 GMT, David Wright
Post by David Wright
[snip]
Post by Beachcomber
Beachcomber
Just wondering: If you're a beachcomber, why are you posting in
desert-region newsgroups?
Oregon has a coast too. :)
Larry R Harrison Jr
2004-09-28 22:13:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Thompson
That's because it's considered rude.
Only morons consider it rude. People with BRAINS don't. People who think
about someone other than their stupid selves once in awhile and get out and
meet other people rather than telling other people to go screw themselves
don't consider this rude. They consider themselves lucky to have someone who
cares enough to try.
Post by Dave Thompson
People these days have little time off and like to spend it with their
families.
Then they need more time off. And yes, I have the right to judge them about
that--if you work 80 hours a week and can't ever see anyone, I don't care
who you are (unless you're the President or a Hollywood actor etc)--that's
ridiculous. It's your right to do it, but it's still ridiculous.
Post by Dave Thompson
Well, you see, that's your problem. You come from the south. The rest of
the country doesn't measure itself against Texas or the south as far as
culture and behavior is concerned.
Well they need to, because in these regards anyway the south is right, and
they are WRONG. Period. Case closed.
Post by Dave Thompson
People in the west are more independant. They are also a bit more
proactive. I found that people here are more likely to plan trips and
family outings on their free time. People in the south were more likely to
stay home and entertain. I suggest that you hook up with a church if you
like that extended family feel and fellowship. Otherwise think more like
the people around you and go out on your own and do something.
That's just it. I do commonly do that, go out & do my own thing. It's just
that at times I try & balance with with a little "let's go see so & so, we
haven't talked to them in a while." Time & time again, we find them in
typical westerner mode, too stuck on themselves and too selfish to do
anything but their own thing all the time. That's not what I call a
community. It's called selfishness, and it's wrong--I don't care WHAT your
"cultural norms" are. It's just wrong to see that much into yourself at the
exclusion of everyone & everything around you.
Post by Dave Thompson
Either your friend is very busy or they don't want to spend time with you.
Then they need to either un-busy themselves a little bit--for their own
benefit as much as anything, forget about us--or say flat-out "we don't want
to spend time with you." At least with the latter I'd appreciate them being
direct about it. If it's how you feel, say it's how you feel and quit
dancing around the elephant in the room.
Post by Dave Thompson
Why is it that you think an entire region should adjust to your needs and
expectations? You are figuratively living in someone else's house. When
you are you either adapt and live by their rules or leave.
It's just as much my house as it is here. So maybe they aren't living by MY
rules. As to why they should adjust--because what they're doing is wrong,
even if they are fine with it within their ownselves. It's just plain wrong.
Period.
Post by Dave Thompson
I also lived in Oregon and California. At least in the west you don't have
to put up with Texans calling you a Yankee and trying to convince you that
everything is better in Texas all the time.
Based on what I've seen in the west, I would say Texans are right, and have
every reason to be as arrogant as they are. They know the secret apparently,
while the western US has their thumb up their butts being selfish and
me-first with everything.

LRH
Dave Thompson
2004-09-28 23:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
That's because it's considered rude.
Only morons consider it rude. People with BRAINS don't.
Aaah, yes, you are a troll. You just posted this to how many groups looking
for a fight? FIne, I'll entertain myself at your expense for a while.

I assure you that I have brains, I am happy, and I am a very busy person who
puts time with my kids first anf with friends second. When you can EASILY
pick up a phone and find out if someone is busy or not, it's not they that
are rude and stupid, it's you.

People who think
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
about someone other than their stupid selves once in awhile and get out
and meet other people rather than telling other people to go screw
themselves don't consider this rude. They consider themselves lucky to
have someone who cares enough to try.
I think we found out why people don't want to spend time with you. You are a
loudmouthed self-centered jerk.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
People these days have little time off and like to spend it with their
families.
Then they need more time off. And yes, I have the right to judge them
about that--if you work 80 hours a week and can't ever see anyone, I don't
care who you are (unless you're the President or a Hollywood actor
etc)--that's ridiculous. It's your right to do it, but it's still
ridiculous.
So you want people to cut down on their work hours to accommodate you.
Jesus-tapdancing-Christ, now I've heard it all.

Believe me, it's you that needs a mental health evaluation, not everyone
else.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
Well, you see, that's your problem. You come from the south. The rest of
the country doesn't measure itself against Texas or the south as far as
culture and behavior is concerned.
Well they need to, because in these regards anyway the south is right, and
they are WRONG. Period. Case closed.
You've presented no case to be closed. Considering the culture of the south
is rife with ignorance, trailor trash, racism, inbreeding, and
fundamentalist Christianity I'd say you are in no position to criticize. You
can make all the sweeping baseless assertions claiming you are right and
that's all there is to it, but no one will take your word for it.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
People in the west are more independant. They are also a bit more
proactive. I found that people here are more likely to plan trips and
family outings on their free time. People in the south were more likely
to stay home and entertain. I suggest that you hook up with a church if
you like that extended family feel and fellowship. Otherwise think more
like the people around you and go out on your own and do something.
That's just it. I do commonly do that, go out & do my own thing. It's just
that at times I try & balance with with a little "let's go see so & so, we
haven't talked to them in a while."
Why don't you call them first?


Time & time again, we find them in
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
typical westerner mode, too stuck on themselves and too selfish to do
anything but their own thing all the time. That's not what I call a
community.
It is and we are perfectly happy with it. If you don't like it, Jethro, I
suggest you high-tail it back to Gooberville South Carolina and go jaw
awhile with your friends. They will be happy to see you and we will be happy
to see you leave.

It's called selfishness, and it's wrong--I don't care WHAT your
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
"cultural norms" are. It's just wrong to see that much into yourself at
the exclusion of everyone & everything around you.
No, selfishness is expecting everyone to wait around in case you might show
up and dropping everything when you do. If you can't see that it's you that
is self centered, and to the point where you can't even make a phone call,
then there is no need to continue.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
Either your friend is very busy or they don't want to spend time with you.
Then they need to either un-busy themselves a little bit--for their own
benefit as much as anything, forget about us--or say flat-out "we don't
want to spend time with you." At least with the latter I'd appreciate them
being direct about it. If it's how you feel, say it's how you feel and
quit dancing around the elephant in the room.
We have friends over all the time. They call first and we arrange a time.
It's that simple. Try it some time.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
Why is it that you think an entire region should adjust to your needs and
expectations? You are figuratively living in someone else's house. When
you are you either adapt and live by their rules or leave.
It's just as much my house as it is here
Let me guess. You're the guy who walks into a bar and immediately tries to
change the TV over to what you want to watch without any regard to the fact
that the rest got there first. It's called selfishness.


So maybe they aren't living by MY
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
rules. As to why they should adjust--because what they're doing is wrong,
You are so incredibly arrogant.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
even if they are fine with it within their ownselves. It's just plain
wrong. Period.
Too bad. Write a complaint and post it in the nearest public place. Maybe
we'll all come around to your way of thinking. Nah.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
I also lived in Oregon and California. At least in the west you don't
have to put up with Texans calling you a Yankee and trying to convince
you that everything is better in Texas all the time.
Based on what I've seen in the west, I would say Texans are right, and
have every reason to be as arrogant as they are. They know the secret
apparently, while the western US has their thumb up their butts being
selfish and me-first with everything.
Selfish and me-first? Oh the irony.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
LRH
Larry R Harrison Jr
2004-09-28 23:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Thompson
I assure you that I have brains, I am happy, and I am a very busy person
who puts time with my kids first anf with friends second. When you can
EASILY pick up a phone and find out if someone is busy or not, it's not
they that are rude and stupid, it's you.
Not when you leave messages and they NEVER, EVER call back. That's rude, I
don't care HOW busy you are. It's just rude.
Post by Dave Thompson
I think we found out why people don't want to spend time with you.
Actually, my hysterical statements to the contrary, there are those who do
and those tend to be those who find behavior such as yours incredibly aloof
and indifferent. And such aloofness and indifference is clearly amorale.
Post by Dave Thompson
So you want people to cut down on their work hours to accommodate you.
Jesus-tapdancing-Christ, now I've heard it all.
No, more time off to be friends to whoever, us or otherwise. There is such a
thing as "all work & no play," and that's just not the right way to live, I
don't care WHO you are (well, maybe Hollywood actors & politicans are an
exception).
Post by Dave Thompson
You've presented no case to be closed. Considering the culture of the
south is rife with ignorance, trailor trash, racism, inbreeding, and
fundamentalist Christianity I'd say you are in no position to criticize.
All of the country has all of that to some extent. Just like the west has
the unfortunate tendency to be aloof & indifferent but also has good things
about it, so it goes with the south. Like I said, people there actually care
about you and don't treat your attempts to bond with them as some sort of
sanctimonious intrusion into their precious, selfish existence as they do in
the western US. That said, the south has good & bad just like the west.
Post by Dave Thompson
Why don't you call them first?
And if I just happen to be 2 blocks from their house and pull up--and they
find that rude, that's their right, but it's still aloof and cold. It just
is. Period.
Post by Dave Thompson
It is [community] and we are perfectly happy with it.
If that is your definition of "community," I have some desert-view property
in Florida I'd be REALLY happy to sell you. Your definition of "community"
is about as appealing as Hitler's definition of a united country.
Post by Dave Thompson
If you don't like it, Jethro, I suggest you high-tail it back to
Gooberville South Carolina and go jaw awhile with your friends. They will
be happy to see you and we will be happy to see you leave.
Too bad, I'm sticking around. The friends who have brains and have the
southern hospitality, great--we appreciate and embrace them. Those who are
into their selfish & aloof existence will suffer for it when you die barren
& alone. But then, I guess that's how you want it, so who am I to judge?
Post by Dave Thompson
No, selfishness is expecting everyone to wait around
It's not about 'waiting around," which you morons always think is what I'm
getting at. It's about not being so busy that no one, no matter who they
are, can ever get ahold of you. Where I come from, that's self-centered. If
that is the west, then the west is on a straight ticket to hell.
Post by Dave Thompson
We have friends over all the time. They call first and we arrange a time.
It's that simple. Try it some time.
And if it a requirement that they must ALWAYS ALWAYS call first even if they
happen to be 30 seconds away, that somehow they tainted that sacred holy
shrine that is your home becaue they DARED to see what you were up to by
walking in and asking--ah the horrors!--that's aloof and indifferent.
Period.
Dave Thompson
2004-09-29 00:35:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
I assure you that I have brains, I am happy, and I am a very busy person
who puts time with my kids first anf with friends second. When you can
EASILY pick up a phone and find out if someone is busy or not, it's not
they that are rude and stupid, it's you.
Not when you leave messages and they NEVER, EVER call back. That's rude, I
don't care HOW busy you are. It's just rude.
That's your problem, not mine. I don't have a problem with my friends
calling or emailing back. It seems to be only your personal experience.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
I think we found out why people don't want to spend time with you.
Actually, my hysterical statements to the contrary, there are those who do
and those tend to be those who find behavior such as yours incredibly
aloof and indifferent. And such aloofness and indifference is clearly
amorale.
Only in your opinion is the west aloof and immoral. People tend to
congregate amongst people that are similar and like the same things. We like
independance and privacy. You don't, not our problem. There is no reason one
should take your opinion over anyone elses. You like the south, we like the
west. Don't like the people here, leave.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
So you want people to cut down on their work hours to accommodate you.
Jesus-tapdancing-Christ, now I've heard it all.
No, more time off to be friends to whoever, us or otherwise. There is such
a thing as "all work & no play," and that's just not the right way to
live, I don't care WHO you are (well, maybe Hollywood actors & politicans
are an exception).
Here's a clue, how many hours someone else works it's none of your business.
If they like it and it benefits their lifestyle you have no say. As I said
before, and you demonstrate, people from the south tend to be nosey and
judgemental. That's just plain "WRONG AND AMORAL."
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
You've presented no case to be closed. Considering the culture of the
south is rife with ignorance, trailor trash, racism, inbreeding, and
fundamentalist Christianity I'd say you are in no position to criticize.
All of the country has all of that to some extent. Just like the west has
the unfortunate tendency to be aloof & indifferent but also has good
things about it, so it goes with the south. Like I said, people there
actually care about you
People out here care as well, just in a manner you don't approve of. I care
about my friends so I respect their privacy and don't take it personally
when they are busy. I'm a grown-up and don't think that the childish
selfishness that you are exhibiting is caring at all. When I was in the
south I didn't constantly bitch and moan about the things that were
different there because I felt like it would be insulting and disrespectful
to them. Unfortunately you don't seem to particularly care about how other
people feel so I don't see as how the south is a much better place if people
are more like you.

and don't treat your attempts to bond with them as some sort of
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
sanctimonious intrusion into their precious, selfish existence as they do
in the western US. That said, the south has good & bad just like the west.
You know, the funny thing here is that you are arguing a matter of degree,
and you don't even know it. It's like saying that you are a better Christian
because you follow the teachings of the bible more strictly than someone
else, yet ignore the fact that there are even more strict and pious people
that make you like like a bad Christian by your own definition. There are
ethnic neighborhoods Philadelphia and New York City where people have huge
generational extended families and return favors of the most distant friend
who would consider southern life sterile by comparison. You would find such
behavior smothering in comparison to what you are used to. You need to
consider walking a mile, as they say, in someone elses shoes.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
Why don't you call them first?
And if I just happen to be 2 blocks from their house and pull up--and they
find that rude, that's their right, but it's still aloof and cold. It just
is. Period.
You are apparently unable to adapt to anybody's behavior that you don't
approve of. If you have a valued friend you respect their ways. Attempts to
chastise them for not acting the way you want is not only rude, but it's
pointless.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
It is [community] and we are perfectly happy with it.
If that is your definition of "community," I have some desert-view
property in Florida I'd be REALLY happy to sell you. Your definition of
"community" is about as appealing as Hitler's definition of a united
country.
We do fine here. We don't need you to help us fix something that aint broke.
You don't like it, well, you know what you can do.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
If you don't like it, Jethro, I suggest you high-tail it back to
Gooberville South Carolina and go jaw awhile with your friends. They will
be happy to see you and we will be happy to see you leave.
Too bad, I'm sticking around.
It won't spite me any.

The friends who have brains and have the
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
southern hospitality, great--we appreciate and embrace them. Those who are
into their selfish & aloof existence will suffer for it when you die
barren & alone. But then, I guess that's how you want it, so who am I to
judge?
Yet you do. Typical southerner.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
No, selfishness is expecting everyone to wait around
It's not about 'waiting around," which you morons always think is what I'm
getting at. It's about not being so busy that no one, no matter who they
are, can ever get ahold of you. Where I come from, that's self-centered.
If that is the west, then the west is on a straight ticket to hell.
Aaaaaaah, yet who are you to judge?

Isn't that the way of the bible-belt southerner. They know all about what
the bible says but when it comes to others that are different that little
thing about judge not lest ye be judged goes right over their heads.

See, that's why I like it here. People respect other people's beliefs and
are less likely to judge. It's bears comment that as you move away from the
south where people are more religious and supposedly more friendly and move
toward the west where people are less religious and more independant, you
find people are less racist, less judgemental, and more accepting of change
and diversity. If the south supposedly reflects a people that are friendly
and reflect Christian values, why is it that it's the west that is actually
more accepting and less judgemental?
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
We have friends over all the time. They call first and we arrange a time.
It's that simple. Try it some time.
And if it a requirement that they must ALWAYS ALWAYS call first even if
they happen to be 30 seconds away, that somehow they tainted that sacred
holy shrine that is your home becaue they DARED to see what you were up to
by walking in and asking--ah the horrors!--that's aloof and indifferent.
Period.
No, it's respectful. Try respecting others. I know it's a problem for you
southerners, but try.
Neil Bradley
2004-09-28 23:21:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
Well, you see, that's your problem. You come from the south. The rest of
the country doesn't measure itself against Texas or the south as far as
culture and behavior is concerned.
Well they need to, because in these regards anyway the south is right, and
they are WRONG. Period. Case closed.
Self righteous southerner! I knew it!

I have relatives in Georgia, Arkansas, Texas, and Alabama, (and no, I don't
like them) and I've been to each state (any many cities in those states)
dozens of times, and I have to say that I feel like my IQ drops by half.
"Nice" they may be, but a noticeable amount of the populous in those areas
seem to be fairly uneducated, unthinking, insecure, cigarette smoking, bible
thumpers. I didn't even know that there was a south/north "thing" until the
bigots in those areas kept referring to me as "the Yank". I have no respect
for people who still carry baggage from events that happened well before
their lifetimes. Several guys in Houston were surprised that I didn't chew,
as if that's a normal thing.

These are not people that I put high on my list of role models.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
That's just it. I do commonly do that, go out & do my own thing. It's just
that at times I try & balance with with a little "let's go see so & so, we
haven't talked to them in a while." Time & time again, we find them in
typical westerner mode, too stuck on themselves and too selfish to do
anything but their own thing all the time. That's not what I call a
community. It's called selfishness, and it's wrong--I
Expecting others to act a certain way for your benefit is the very
definition of selfishness. I'm surprised you don't see the irony in that.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Then they need to either un-busy themselves a little bit--for their own
benefit
So you know more about what's best for them? Gawd, that's awfully arrogant
and presumptuous.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
as much as anything, forget about us--or say flat-out "we don't want to
spend time with you."
Ever thought that you might be the problem? I've never had anyone blow me
off to the degree you're describing, so I'm guessing the pot is calling the
kettle black, here.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
At least with the latter I'd appreciate them being direct about it. If
it's how you feel, say it's how you feel and quit dancing around the
elephant in the room.
Well, on that point we can agree.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
It's just as much my house as it is here. So maybe they aren't living by
MY rules. As to why they should adjust--because what they're doing is
wrong, even if they are fine with it within their ownselves. It's just
plain wrong. Period.
Hahahahaha! As if their behavior is a universal constant that can be reduced
to "right" and "wrong"!
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
I also lived in Oregon and California. At least in the west you don't
have to put up with Texans calling you a Yankee and trying to convince
you that everything is better in Texas all the time.
Based on what I've seen in the west, I would say Texans are right, and
have every reason to be as arrogant as they are. They know the secret
apparently, while the western US has their thumb up their butts being
selfish and me-first with everything.
Pot. Kettle. Black.

-->Neil
Larry R Harrison Jr
2004-09-28 23:38:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Bradley
Self righteous southerner! I knew it!
There's a difference between self-righteousness and just plain being right.
I submit to you that regarding this topic I'm the latter.
Post by Neil Bradley
I have relatives in Georgia, Arkansas, Texas, and Alabama, (and no, I
don't like them) and I've been to each state (any many cities in those
states) dozens of times, and I have to say that I feel like my IQ drops by
half.
That's sure a nice way to talk about your family.
Post by Neil Bradley
"Nice" they may be,
Yes, and when it comes down to it, "nice" is all that matters. As the saying
goes, it's nice to be important, but more important to be nice. And I'll
take nice and stupid over smart and snotty anyway (though I do agree with
Bill Engvall--"I Just Hate Stupid People.")
Post by Neil Bradley
but a noticeable amount of the populous in those areas seem to be fairly
uneducated, unthinking, insecure, cigarette smoking, bible thumpers.
They are thumping the Bible, and the Bible is NEVER wrong, even when we
humans are.

Moreover, just because some of them are that way, that means ALL mannerisms
of the south are somehow backwards? Sounds like prejudice to me, the same
prejudice epitomized when a southerner says "Yankee." And I will agree with
you that southerners calling Northerers "damn yankees" is wrong and
prejudiced.
Post by Neil Bradley
I have no respect for people who still carry baggage from events that
happened well before their lifetimes.
On that I agree with you. That also applies to Mexicans who bitch & moan
about how supposedly the US "stole AZ from Mexico," and blacks who demand
slavery reparations. I am NOT racist at all, I love all people, my point is
simply the same as yours--get over the past.
Post by Neil Bradley
Expecting others to act a certain way for your benefit is the very
definition of selfishness.
It isn't just for my benefit, it's for EVERYONE's benefit. Besides,
sometimes it isn't selfish. It is "selfish" to demand your spouse not cheat
on you? And that's surely for your benefit. It is "selfish" to ask your
spouse to his/her fair share around the house? And that's surely for your
benefit.
Post by Neil Bradley
So you know more about what's best for them?
If they work so often and are so busy they practically don't have time to
pee in their own toilet, then yeah--I presume to have enough common sense to
know that's just too busy for ANYBODY. That's just common sense, I don't
care WHO you are. That's their right to be that way, but it's still wrong.
And yes, I presume to KNOW this. Anybody with brains not tied to their
rear-end knows.
Post by Neil Bradley
Hahahahaha! As if their behavior is a universal constant that can be
reduced to "right" and "wrong"!
With things such as these, I would submit to you that yes, it is a matter of
"right" and "wrong."

LRH
Neil Bradley
2004-09-29 02:38:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Neil Bradley
Self righteous southerner! I knew it!
There's a difference between self-righteousness and just plain being right.
I don't think you realize just how funny that statement is! Well, obviously
you don't, otherwise you wouldn't have made it. There is a saying - when one
finds themselves in a hole, stop digging.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Neil Bradley
I have relatives in Georgia, Arkansas, Texas, and Alabama, (and no, I
don't like them) and I've been to each state (any many cities in those
states) dozens of times, and I have to say that I feel like my IQ drops
by half.
That's sure a nice way to talk about your family.
And because they are my family I need to speak nicely of them even if they
aren't worth a damn?
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Neil Bradley
"Nice" they may be,
Yes, and when it comes down to it, "nice" is all that matters.
I see. So honesty and dependability don't have anything to do with it.
Someone can steal my car as long as they're nice about it. Gotcha.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
As the saying goes, it's nice to be important, but more important to be
nice. And I'll take nice and stupid over smart and snotty anyway (though I
do agree with Bill Engvall--"I Just Hate Stupid People.")
I'd rather someone be a jerk and be honest and trustworthy.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Neil Bradley
but a noticeable amount of the populous in those areas seem to be fairly
uneducated, unthinking, insecure, cigarette smoking, bible thumpers.
They are thumping the Bible, and the Bible is NEVER wrong, even when we
humans are.
Well, that would be it's wrong all the time since people are involved.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Moreover, just because some of them are that way, that means ALL
mannerisms of the south are somehow backwards?
Nope - didn't say that. I'm saying there is a trend there that I don't see
here. I met plenty of people in Dalton and Atlanta who were great people,
but the low lifes seem to be a bit more prevalent.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Sounds like prejudice to me, the same prejudice epitomized when a
southerner says "Yankee."
The difference between the southerners talking about those "damned Yanks" is
that even though I recognize differences in people in the south, I don't
treat them any differently than I do anyone else. I just recognize those
differences and deal with them, much the same way I deal with New Yorkers
(an entirely different set of variables).
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Neil Bradley
Expecting others to act a certain way for your benefit is the very
definition of selfishness.
It isn't just for my benefit, it's for EVERYONE's benefit.
That assumes your view of what a "benefit" is. I don't think that most
people would agree that a "benefit" would be to sit around waiting for
unannounced guests. Everyone has different forms of relaxation. Some like to
sit on the porch for hours on end. That's not relaxing to me - that's
wasting time. Instead, I read, talk with a friend, listen to music, or
somehow expand my existence.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Besides, sometimes it isn't selfish. It is "selfish" to demand your spouse
not cheat on you? And that's surely for your benefit.
No, I don't think it's selfish, considering the fact that I honor her by
promising the same. But there are those who believe that sex with multiple
partners during marriage is just fine. It's not for me, but I have no
problem with them and I'm not going to tell them that they need to be
monogomous "for their own benefit".
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Neil Bradley
So you know more about what's best for them?
If they work so often and are so busy they practically don't have time to
pee in their own toilet, then yeah--I presume to have enough common sense
to know that's just too busy for ANYBODY.
I think you're exaggerating, here. No one here that I'm aware of is THAT
busy. I even have time to engage you in Usenet and I still spend time with
my family!
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Neil Bradley
Hahahahaha! As if their behavior is a universal constant that can be
reduced to "right" and "wrong"!
With things such as these, I would submit to you that yes, it is a matter
of "right" and "wrong."
Depends upon who it is, and no, it's not "right" or "wrong". Someone who has
no social life at all and has no friends should be free to work or do what
they please and not be bothered by someone telling them what they're doing
is "right" or "wrong", especially since it's not either - it's subjective.

-->Neil
Lobby Dosser
2004-09-29 00:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
That's because it's considered rude.
Only morons consider it rude. People with BRAINS don't. People who
think about someone other than their stupid selves once in awhile and
get out and meet other people rather than telling other people to go
screw themselves don't consider this rude. They consider themselves
lucky to have someone who cares enough to try.
Well, enough about everyone else tell us about YOU.

snip
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
That's just it. I do commonly do that, go out & do my own thing. It's
just that at times I try & balance with with a little "let's go see so
& so, we haven't talked to them in a while." Time & time again, we
find them in typical westerner mode, too stuck on themselves and too
selfish to do anything but their own thing all the time. That's not
what I call a community. It's called selfishness, and it's wrong--I
don't care WHAT your "cultural norms" are. It's just wrong to see that
much into yourself at the exclusion of everyone & everything around
you.
Enough about everyone else already! Let's talk about YOU.

snip
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
It's just as much my house as it is here. So maybe they aren't living
by MY rules. As to why they should adjust--because what they're doing
is wrong, even if they are fine with it within their ownselves. It's
just plain wrong. Period.
Post by Dave Thompson
I also lived in Oregon and California. At least in the west you don't
have to put up with Texans calling you a Yankee and trying to
convince you that everything is better in Texas all the time.
Based on what I've seen in the west, I would say Texans are right, and
have every reason to be as arrogant as they are. They know the secret
apparently, while the western US has their thumb up their butts being
selfish and me-first with everything.
Troll?

It's not your deoderant, it's your ATTITUDE.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
LRH
paul
2004-09-29 17:57:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
Why is it that you think an entire region should adjust to your needs and
expectations? You are figuratively living in someone else's house. When
you are you either adapt and live by their rules or leave.
It's just as much my house as it is here. So maybe they aren't living by
MY rules. As to why they should adjust--because what they're doing is
wrong, even if they are fine with it within their ownselves. It's just
plain wrong. Period.
Fuck you! Go the hell home! We treat you with derision because you are an
asshole from down south who thinks they know everything and have the right
to tell an entire region of the country the WE are wrong. Guess what Goober
Pyle, it is OUR house, and you don't fit.

Another difference between us and y'all, is that in Arizona, according to a
recent poll, one out of every three cars that you see here have a loaded
weapon in them and a driver who knows how to use it. I would keep your
shitty attitude to yourself when your on the road around here.


paul
arizona
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Dave Thompson
That's because it's considered rude.
Only morons consider it rude. People with BRAINS don't. People who think
about someone other than their stupid selves once in awhile and get out
and meet other people rather than telling other people to go screw
themselves don't consider this rude. They consider themselves lucky to
have someone who cares enough to try.
Post by Dave Thompson
People these days have little time off and like to spend it with their
families.
Then they need more time off. And yes, I have the right to judge them
about that--if you work 80 hours a week and can't ever see anyone, I don't
care who you are (unless you're the President or a Hollywood actor
etc)--that's ridiculous. It's your right to do it, but it's still
ridiculous.
Post by Dave Thompson
Well, you see, that's your problem. You come from the south. The rest of
the country doesn't measure itself against Texas or the south as far as
culture and behavior is concerned.
Well they need to, because in these regards anyway the south is right, and
they are WRONG. Period. Case closed.
Post by Dave Thompson
People in the west are more independant. They are also a bit more
proactive. I found that people here are more likely to plan trips and
family outings on their free time. People in the south were more likely
to stay home and entertain. I suggest that you hook up with a church if
you like that extended family feel and fellowship. Otherwise think more
like the people around you and go out on your own and do something.
That's just it. I do commonly do that, go out & do my own thing. It's just
that at times I try & balance with with a little "let's go see so & so, we
haven't talked to them in a while." Time & time again, we find them in
typical westerner mode, too stuck on themselves and too selfish to do
anything but their own thing all the time. That's not what I call a
community. It's called selfishness, and it's wrong--I don't care WHAT your
"cultural norms" are. It's just wrong to see that much into yourself at
the exclusion of everyone & everything around you.
Post by Dave Thompson
Either your friend is very busy or they don't want to spend time with you.
Then they need to either un-busy themselves a little bit--for their own
benefit as much as anything, forget about us--or say flat-out "we don't
want to spend time with you." At least with the latter I'd appreciate them
being direct about it. If it's how you feel, say it's how you feel and
quit dancing around the elephant in the room.
Post by Dave Thompson
Why is it that you think an entire region should adjust to your needs and
expectations? You are figuratively living in someone else's house. When
you are you either adapt and live by their rules or leave.
It's just as much my house as it is here. So maybe they aren't living by
MY rules. As to why they should adjust--because what they're doing is
wrong, even if they are fine with it within their ownselves. It's just
plain wrong. Period.
Post by Dave Thompson
I also lived in Oregon and California. At least in the west you don't
have to put up with Texans calling you a Yankee and trying to convince
you that everything is better in Texas all the time.
Based on what I've seen in the west, I would say Texans are right, and
have every reason to be as arrogant as they are. They know the secret
apparently, while the western US has their thumb up their butts being
selfish and me-first with everything.
LRH
Alan R. Weiss
2004-09-28 22:56:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Thompson
I also lived in Oregon and California. At least in the west you don't have
to put up with Texans calling you a Yankee and trying to convince you that
everything is better in Texas all the time. We may be aloof in the west but
with big mouthed Texans the south shouldn't be complaining very much.
That was pretty pretty much uncalled for, Dave.

80% of Texans are urban or suburban. But shssh ... don't spoil the myth.
Read "Texas Monthly" and you'll understand us better. We LOVE our myths, we
cherish our Texan heritage, but braggin' is not considered cool in Texas at
all. Modest understatement is valued more. Unless attacked, in which we
will demonstrably show you how we're proud.

By and large, Texans are friendly and open in public, quick with a smile and
a kind word in public. But even in Texas, its not considered proper to just
"drop in" on people. Also, in Texas family is *really* important, and
friends tend to be more superficial than in other places. Family first,
church friends second, and what was third again? Oh yeah, friends, that's
right.

I'm a transplanted southern Californian to Austin, Texas (been here 13 years
now), and I appreciate the 'sense of place' and overt pride people have in
Texas. There's a sense here that if you came to Texas on purpose and even
TRY to be like us, you ARE a Texan, and welcome aboard. We'll issue you:

- one (1) pickup truck (Chevy, GMC, or Ford, it will have a Texas flag on it
in metal). An SUV upgrade may be requested.
- one (1) shotgun with rack, the better to rattle around in back. You may
substitute a .308 or .30-06 hunting rifle.
- one (1) yellow labrador retriever, who will try real hard not to fall out
the back of the pickup
- one (1) BMW, just in case y'all get tired of the pickup
- one (1) mobile phone, which is to balanced on your ear in your pickup
truck as you juggle the beer can in the cup holder and the spittin' cup
between y'all's legs
- two (2) season tickets to the local high school football games, which is
where you should be on Friday night in the Fall.
- one (1) handgun. You may pick between a Glock or M1911, but it will be
big calibur. Big revolvers are extra cost. Don't bring the heater to the
football games - not considered cool at all. They're ALL our kids, etc.
- one (1) bottle of Miss Breck blonde hair color. You know what to do with
this.
- one (1) pint of Salt Lick BBQ sauce. Put it on everything.
- one (1) Jack Brown Cleaner's coupon, for said BBQ sauce stains on your
Texas flag denim shirt
- a stern warning against trying to tell us its better every place else
you've been. We just don't care, and soon you won't, either.

And so on. ;-)

I've had GREAT times at Gin Blossom concerts in Tempe, AZ. Arizona can be
awesome - I have friends like Ernie Hancock and Ken Holder in AZ, and
they're real westerners - pro-gun, pro-liberty, pro-personal responsibility.
We share that with Arizonans for the most part. Arizonans are busy
distinguishing themselves from Californians. We share that, too.

My advice, Larry, is to find a church or synagogue or civic group or
political group and get involved. If all else fails, come to Austin and
you'll find friends.

Alan in Austin
Just South of Nowhere


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.762 / Virus Database: 510 - Release Date: 9/13/2004
Larry R Harrison Jr
2004-09-28 23:28:18 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for your comments, Alan.

That said, I think you are partially wrong--when we were in Texas visiting,
dropping in was totally cool, every single person we visited this way was
totally receptive and very warm to us. Maybe it's a thing that Texas is so
big, that some parts do things one way and other parts do things a different
way. I do say that with a smile on my face, I assure you. : - )

The same was the case with the friends we saw while in Texas, they made my
wife & I feel so welcome. I will grant you--these persons were my wife's
friends first and foremost, I was a friend by association because of being
her husband. Yet even so, one person named Rhonda whom my wife did see off &
on--but not necessarily that often--and this person didn't know me from
Adam, they let us come over and stay for long periods of visting even with
their grandchildren there. There was none of this "our family's here, so you
all are going to have to come back later" mentality. We mixed right in with
all of them. Heck, they even let us swim in their pool and didn't mind one
bit. One other person we dropped in on was sorry that his wife wasn't home
when we were there, "she would have LUVVVED to have seen you while U wuz
here." It was great.

It was in east Texas, about 2 hours east of Dallas, if that makes any
difference.

As for distinguishing one's self from CA--why would one need to? Where do
Californians get off thinking they're so special? If anything, that is one
thing I tire of in movies and TV shows--they're always based in CA (or NY,
or Miami, or Las Vegas) it seems. How about, say, basing a show in
Philadelphia, or Atlanta, or Louisville, or Missouri? Surely not all culture
occurs in Las Vegas, Miami, New York, and Los Angeles. Please.

But that's another topic I guess.

The thing about it is this--you & others have said that I should join a
church group if I want that sort of friendliness. That is just the
thing--many of this hostility has occurred within the church. One good
example: one time we were in a support group which met every Wed, and our
car had died. We needed a ride to get there, and what few whose phone
numbers we called etc weren't home or weren't able to etc. Meanwhile I had
received an email from the head of the group, and this email went out to all
of us--and everyone's email was in the header. I hit "reply to all" and
asked politely if anyone could help us. I also prefaced with "I hope this
email was not an intrusion." The response from ONE of them was so hostile
and hysterical you'd think I had peeped at her 10 year old daughter in the
bathroom through the keyhole. She (or he, whatever) reacted just so
hysterically. I thought--my goodness, what a freak! And in church, too, of
all places! I thought--that's surely a Godly way to behave, to act all
offended with someone simply asking if they could receive a ride. You'd
think I had showed up at her home in the middle of the night drunk banging
on her windows or something. I actually replied to the original sender of
the email and said that whoever reacted this way (I didn't know who it was
and didn't try and find out) should really lighten up and get over herself.

But your idea was a good one, I have found that LESS of this occurs in the
church than elsewhere, as it should. Christians don't tend to be aloof and
indifferent, we regard it as a flatout sin to be so. And it IS a sin.

Of course it's a sin to be bitter and let others control you with their
behavior, which I can be guilty of, so there--we all have issues.

The thing to do also is to celebrate those who haven't epitomized this
behavior, and the thing is--my hysterical statements aside, there actually
have been SOME here who have epitomized much of this "southern hospitality,"
and we're grateful for it. I suppose we should just focus on those and not
have anything to do with the others.

LRH
Post by Alan R. Weiss
Post by Dave Thompson
I also lived in Oregon and California. At least in the west you don't have
to put up with Texans calling you a Yankee and trying to convince you that
everything is better in Texas all the time. We may be aloof in the west
but
Post by Dave Thompson
with big mouthed Texans the south shouldn't be complaining very much.
That was pretty pretty much uncalled for, Dave.
80% of Texans are urban or suburban. But shssh ... don't spoil the myth.
Read "Texas Monthly" and you'll understand us better. We LOVE our myths, we
cherish our Texan heritage, but braggin' is not considered cool in Texas at
all. Modest understatement is valued more. Unless attacked, in which we
will demonstrably show you how we're proud.
By and large, Texans are friendly and open in public, quick with a smile and
a kind word in public. But even in Texas, its not considered proper to just
"drop in" on people. Also, in Texas family is *really* important, and
friends tend to be more superficial than in other places. Family first,
church friends second, and what was third again? Oh yeah, friends, that's
right.
I'm a transplanted southern Californian to Austin, Texas (been here 13 years
now), and I appreciate the 'sense of place' and overt pride people have in
Texas. There's a sense here that if you came to Texas on purpose and even
- one (1) pickup truck (Chevy, GMC, or Ford, it will have a Texas flag on it
in metal). An SUV upgrade may be requested.
- one (1) shotgun with rack, the better to rattle around in back. You may
substitute a .308 or .30-06 hunting rifle.
- one (1) yellow labrador retriever, who will try real hard not to fall out
the back of the pickup
- one (1) BMW, just in case y'all get tired of the pickup
- one (1) mobile phone, which is to balanced on your ear in your pickup
truck as you juggle the beer can in the cup holder and the spittin' cup
between y'all's legs
- two (2) season tickets to the local high school football games, which is
where you should be on Friday night in the Fall.
- one (1) handgun. You may pick between a Glock or M1911, but it will be
big calibur. Big revolvers are extra cost. Don't bring the heater to the
football games - not considered cool at all. They're ALL our kids, etc.
- one (1) bottle of Miss Breck blonde hair color. You know what to do with
this.
- one (1) pint of Salt Lick BBQ sauce. Put it on everything.
- one (1) Jack Brown Cleaner's coupon, for said BBQ sauce stains on your
Texas flag denim shirt
- a stern warning against trying to tell us its better every place else
you've been. We just don't care, and soon you won't, either.
And so on. ;-)
I've had GREAT times at Gin Blossom concerts in Tempe, AZ. Arizona can be
awesome - I have friends like Ernie Hancock and Ken Holder in AZ, and
they're real westerners - pro-gun, pro-liberty, pro-personal
responsibility.
We share that with Arizonans for the most part. Arizonans are busy
distinguishing themselves from Californians. We share that, too.
My advice, Larry, is to find a church or synagogue or civic group or
political group and get involved. If all else fails, come to Austin and
you'll find friends.
Alan in Austin
Just South of Nowhere
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.762 / Virus Database: 510 - Release Date: 9/13/2004
Randy Howard
2004-09-29 00:34:54 UTC
Permalink
In article <o_l6d.29786$***@fe2.texas.rr.com>, ***@ebenchmarks.com
says...
A few corrections. Being from California originally, you seem to have
missed a few points. :-)
Post by Alan R. Weiss
- one (1) pickup truck (Chevy, GMC, or Ford, it will have a Texas flag on it
in metal). An SUV upgrade may be requested.
An SUV is a downgrade, not an upgrade. An upgrade would be to 4x4 and/or
limited slip differential, crew cab and diesel engine.
Post by Alan R. Weiss
- one (1) BMW, just in case y'all get tired of the pickup
You really are from California, huh?
Post by Alan R. Weiss
- two (2) season tickets to the local high school football games, which is
where you should be on Friday night in the Fall.
Friday nights in the fall are spent on your hunting property, not at a
football game.
Post by Alan R. Weiss
- one (1) handgun. You may pick between a Glock or M1911, but it will be
big calibur. Big revolvers are extra cost. Don't bring the heater to the
football games - not considered cool at all.
Yet another reason not to be at a football game.
Post by Alan R. Weiss
- one (1) bottle of Miss Breck blonde hair color. You know what to do with
this.
WTH? Clearly, you aren't from around here.

:-)
--
Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
Alan R. Weiss
2004-09-29 23:35:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Howard
says...
A few corrections. Being from California originally, you seem to have
missed a few points. :-)
Post by Alan R. Weiss
- one (1) pickup truck (Chevy, GMC, or Ford, it will have a Texas flag on it
in metal). An SUV upgrade may be requested.
An SUV is a downgrade, not an upgrade. An upgrade would be to 4x4 and/or
limited slip differential, crew cab and diesel engine.
I stand corrected. I meant to say 4x4 and crew cab.
Post by Randy Howard
Post by Alan R. Weiss
- one (1) BMW, just in case y'all get tired of the pickup
You really are from California, huh?
You're around Austin ... seems like it, don't it? Been to Dallas recently?
Pitiful.
Post by Randy Howard
Post by Alan R. Weiss
- two (2) season tickets to the local high school football games, which is
where you should be on Friday night in the Fall.
Friday nights in the fall are spent on your hunting property, not at a
football game.
Nosir. High school football. Saturday morning, when you're still hung over
and tired, EARLY, is for hunting and fishing. Football is God, and
vice-versa, and praise be the name of the Middle Linebacker to all calls are
due.
Post by Randy Howard
Post by Alan R. Weiss
- one (1) handgun. You may pick between a Glock or M1911, but it will be
big calibur. Big revolvers are extra cost. Don't bring the heater to the
football games - not considered cool at all.
Yet another reason not to be at a football game.
Post by Alan R. Weiss
- one (1) bottle of Miss Breck blonde hair color. You know what to do with
this.
WTH? Clearly, you aren't from around here.
:-)
Sorry, I've seen more bleach-blondes in Tejas than most places. Not your
wife Donna, of course (a fine woman, Donna ... can't and won't say nothin'
bad 'about her). But c'mon, go to the mall and count the peroxides.

Alan
Post by Randy Howard
--
Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.770 / Virus Database: 517 - Release Date: 9/27/2004
gatt
2004-09-30 20:50:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy Howard
Post by Alan R. Weiss
- one (1) bottle of Miss Breck blonde hair color. You know what to do with
this.
WTH? Clearly, you aren't from around here.
Sounds like Dallas, actually. I've half a mind to move down there and turn
and old car wash into a drive-through hairspray salon.

A friend's sister worked for Ross Perot (personally). She lived in a
neighborhood appropriate for somebody with close connections to the old man.
Unfortunately, she was excluded from the neighborhood social bees 'cause she
was a woman who had a job. Kinda bucked the community tradition.

Lotta pards and yaller roses in my family. :>

-c
J Rob
2004-09-30 14:47:42 UTC
Permalink
Alan R. Weiss wrote:
...
Post by Alan R. Weiss
- one (1) bottle of Miss Breck blonde hair color. You know what to do with
this.
Dump it in Barton Spring Pool to show how much we love the environment?
Larry R Harrison Jr
2004-09-29 00:10:09 UTC
Permalink
Well if nothing else, here in alt.culture.us.southwest--which was a pretty
dormant and un-alive newsgroup--things sure have perked up. Apparently
telling the truth which I have done hurts. Oh well.

The proper perspective for me to have, I'd say, goes something like
this--thank God not all the people here in southern Arizona epitomize this
self-centered, aloof, indifferent, snotty, "see you when I see you"
attitude.

That is:

**Many are very prompt when we leave messages upon calling them (sometimes
might take a week but that's fine)

**They may PREFER we call 1st which is fine but they don't act like you
corrupted the Temple of the Almighty for dropping in on them once in a while
when you're in their neighborhood (which may happen once a month)

**They have busy lives, yes, they don't live for sitting around waiting on
your beck & call--yet they always make time for you as much as they can
(naturally, you don't take excessive advantage of that and you respect
reasonable boundaries)

**They don't consider the desire to bond with such a person "needing to get
a life," or being selfish

**They do have their own hobbies and lead a full life, but don't consider
your presence a nagging interruption of it

**They do put their spouse & children first as they should, yet even so in a
way they treat you like family rather than acting like "mom's here, so...."
implying that because their parents etc are present you should stay away
because you're inferior to them. Rather, they welcome you into their circle.
(Naturally, this would only be with close friends, not casual acquaintances
you know at work but not beyond that.)

The thing that got me started was this: when compared to the southeastern
US, clearly there is this tendency in the western US for people to be aloof
and indifferent, and put up some unreal boundaries even with close friends.
I find that unfortunate. This is not about me whining "woe is me" because a
few are indifferent. Like I said, many haven't been and the thing to do is
embrace those and not be so bitter about those who aren't that it pollutes
every aspect of my life. Otherwise, who will want to be around such a
person? Even I wouldn't.

No, it's about making this observation and saying--humbly of course--this
just isn't the way humans should relate to each other. Yes, we should have
some boundaries. I do actually know of some people who have the absolute
opposite problem--they are so EXCESSIVELY helping of others they don't have
time to pee. They have no time to enjoy life and recreate, they're so busy
doing so much for other people. It's about BALANCE. It's about not going too
far in either direction to the detriment of yourself and those closest to
you. Don't wrap yourself up so much in your own self that others can't get
in, or have to practically schedule an appointment with your secretary
first. ALL of us are needy to some extent. Even Jesus Christ--God for crying
out loud--needed friends when he was here. What, you think he had 12
disciples just because he felt like saying "12 disciples" to himself? No, he
had them because he needed friends close to him. If Jesus needed friends,
who are we to think we don't? And who are we to be so aloof and indifferent
in how we relate to them, and put up boundaries that go beyond respect to
the point of being snobbish & aloof?

Yes, I will admit--at times, I take such rejections personally, and I
shouldn't. After all, as I said, there are plenty of others with the
southern hospitality disposition to more than make up for it. Thus, I should
instead spend more energy appreciating them and showing them my
appreciation. Why waste time trying to tell people they're wrong when they
won't believe you, even when clearly THEY ARE WRONG? Never works.

Again, thanks to those who make time--and if they can't, at least they
return the phone calls and are cordual about it. It really does make all the
difference.

LRH
Post by Dave Thompson
This is not meant as a flame, it is an observation I seriously have
noticed, having once lived in NC but now living in AZ for 8 years.
Note: I would post this in alt.culture.az or alt.culture.southwest, but I
didn't see such newsgroups.
az.politics, az.general, alt.culture.us.southwest. added them all in for
you.
People in the southwest seem more distant and--dare I say it--stuck-up
compared to the southeast or even Texas. I notice they never return phone
calls, they seem to not want you to ever show up at their home unannounced
That's because it's considered rude. People these days have little time
off and like to spend it with their families. If I was in the middle of a
project with my kids I know that I wouldn't like having to stop and
entertain visitors. As a matter orf fact I would politely tell them that I
was busy and maybe to call me and set up something we could all do later.
--even on a casual Sunday afternoon--they just seem so distant
and aloof, even ones who claim to be your friends act this way.
Maybe if you claim to be their friends you could honor their wishes and
call ahead? Are you showing up unannounced because you know that they
don't have the time to get together and this is a way to catch them while
they are at home?
On the other hand, in NC where I came from--and in TX where I visited a
week ago--my wife & I were showing up unannounced at people's homes she
knew but weren't necessarily very close friends with and everyone acted
so warm & friendly to our unannounced presence. They returned phone calls
much more
promptly and consistently. There wasn't that aloofness and cold,
distance-ness I have noticed from even our so-called friends in southern
AZ.
Well, you see, that's your problem. You come from the south. The rest of
the country doesn't measure itself against Texas or the south as far as
culture and behavior is concerned. There are regional differences all over
the country. When I lived in the south I did find people more friendly,
but I also found them to be more nosey and judgemental as well. Everyone
seemed to know everyone elses business and had an opinion on it as well.
People also gossiped more. I welcome living in the west and southwest
because people were more private and respect other people's privacy here.
I have asked others who transplanted here from the southeast, TX, et al,
thinking maybe it was just me--but in fact every single such person I've
asked has agreed with me 100% about this. Also, one college friend I knew
in NC lived awhile in California, and remarked herself about the exact
same thing.
People in the west are more independant. They are also a bit more
proactive. I found that people here are more likely to plan trips and
family outings on their free time. People in the south were more likely to
stay home and entertain. I suggest that you hook up with a church if you
like that extended family feel and fellowship. Otherwise think more like
the people around you and go out on your own and do something.
One friend I talked to last night, who has always lived in southern
AZ--we were asking if they wanted to do something with us for maybe 1
hour this upcoming Saturday. Their remark was that we needed to learn
that if you want people to do anything with you you need to ask them
weeks in advance. WEEKS in advance? For a 1-hour visit? Is everyone that
busy around here? I'm sorry, but to me only people like Senators, the
President, doctors, et al--could possibly be THAT busy, and this friend
is none of those.
I think this is just an extreme example. That's not the norm. Either your
friend is very busy or they don't want to spend time with you.
Many may be thinking that I am dealing specifically with people who don't
want to be our friends but are too nice to say so. In fact, though, if we
run into these people at church or what have you, they are so charming
and friendly.
Like I said, people are more independant and private. It could also be the
case that you are living in a bigger city now and people are just busier.
The pace in the south is definately slower than in Phoenix.
Sometimes when you do reach them on the phone even they also are.
But if you call them they never call back, ever. Even when it's a call of
"we're leaving for TX in 4 days, wondering if you could give us a ride to
the airport" (which is in town). They never call back, even to say "sorry
but we're tied up that day." And this is EVERY SINGLE PERSON practically
we meet around here that acts this way.
Let me give you a suggestion. Might it be that you are trying too hard and
people are turned off by it. It's like having a friend that's too needy.
Eventually you learn to keep them at a polite distance and manage the
their time around you. If you are showing up at people's houses
unannounced and begging rides I know I would look at the caller ID before
I picked up the phone. You also come across as very judgemental and
unwilling to accept that people do things differently here. Maybe this
comes across to your friends and they are tired of it.
I ask this seriously, not to flame: what is it about the southwestern US
that makes people so relatively aloof and distant, not wanting to be
bothered at all? I think it's ridiculous, and it so upsets me I'm
considering leaving on account of it.
Why is it that you think an entire region should adjust to your needs and
expectations? You are figuratively living in someone else's house. When
you are you either adapt and live by their rules or leave. When I lived in
the south I adjusted to people going at a slower pace and being a bit too
effusive and I got along fine.
I also lived in Oregon and California. At least in the west you don't have
to put up with Texans calling you a Yankee and trying to convince you that
everything is better in Texas all the time. We may be aloof in the west
but with big mouthed Texans the south shouldn't be complaining very much.
Dave Thompson
2004-09-29 00:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Well if nothing else, here in alt.culture.us.southwest--which was a pretty
dormant and un-alive newsgroup--things sure have perked up. Apparently
telling the truth which I have done hurts. Oh well.
The proper perspective for me to have, I'd say, goes something like
this--thank God not all the people here in southern Arizona epitomize this
self-centered, aloof, indifferent, snotty, "see you when I see you"
attitude.
**Many are very prompt when we leave messages upon calling them (sometimes
might take a week but that's fine)
**They may PREFER we call 1st which is fine but they don't act like you
corrupted the Temple of the Almighty for dropping in on them once in a
while when you're in their neighborhood (which may happen once a month)
**They have busy lives, yes, they don't live for sitting around waiting on
your beck & call--yet they always make time for you as much as they can
(naturally, you don't take excessive advantage of that and you respect
reasonable boundaries)
**They don't consider the desire to bond with such a person "needing to
get a life," or being selfish
**They do have their own hobbies and lead a full life, but don't consider
your presence a nagging interruption of it
**They do put their spouse & children first as they should, yet even so in
a way they treat you like family rather than acting like "mom's here,
so...." implying that because their parents etc are present you should
stay away because you're inferior to them. Rather, they welcome you into
their circle. (Naturally, this would only be with close friends, not
casual acquaintances you know at work but not beyond that.)
The thing that got me started was this: when compared to the southeastern
US, clearly there is this tendency in the western US for people to be
aloof and indifferent, and put up some unreal boundaries even with close
friends. I find that unfortunate. This is not about me whining "woe is me"
because a few are indifferent. Like I said, many haven't been and the
thing to do is embrace those and not be so bitter about those who aren't
that it pollutes every aspect of my life. Otherwise, who will want to be
around such a person? Even I wouldn't.
No, it's about making this observation and saying--humbly of course--this
just isn't the way humans should relate to each other.
People also shouldn't be religiously and racially bigoted, yet the south is
known for that. People also shouldn't be arrogant and judgmental, yet you
are both. If you go to a man's house, you shouldn't complain that he was too
slow to open the door, his kids are ugly, and your mother cooks better than
his wife does. But you do this, and act surprised that your sage advice
isn't appreciated. When I was in the south, I set a better example of
westerners than you do of southerners. Your posts breed contempt for the
south. I don't think the south needs to be promoting it's ugliness
considering it';s history.
Larry R Harrison Jr
2004-09-29 03:59:40 UTC
Permalink
The extremely defensive reactions of many here defending the aloof and
indifferent way they deal with others in the west basically long ago
confirmed my suspicion. Obviously there IS a fuddy-duddy way things are done
around here, with regards to people being so aloof and having such
unbelievable boundaries they set up regarding they way they fiercely--to a
ridiculous extreme--protect their precious privacy.

I thought it was just me, but others observing in agreement with me that
this is indeed the case--to say nothing of those in this thread who so
strongly believe in this ridiculous notion of "space" to that extreme,
confirm it wasn't just me.

Well like I said, the proper response--beyond calling people on the carpet,
which at times IS proper--is to embrace those who epitomize the southern
hospitality around here, and be thankful for them. The rest--well, what can
I say? They epitomize behavior which clearly is unfortunate, but why waste
time with them when others who are more than willing to be REAL friends to
you are available even right here--gasp--in the west?

The thing is, bitterness can pollute your life. If I remain bitter towards
those who wronged me in that manner, I make myself no good for the rest who
remain with whom good friendships can be struck up. As I said, who wants to
hear someone whine & moan all the time? Not even me.

I will NEVER accept the western US being this way. NEVER. The words I've
heard from many about how they are so glad they live here because of not
being judged--in the end, you WILL be judged for how you live. Maybe that's
not my job, but it is to be done. At times, frankly, even we humans need to
call others on the carpet for things which are wrong.

I mean, I've heard so much about how the south supposedly has no place
saying anything because of its past. I hear of how racist it was. Now this
is the thing. Years ago, slavery was legal there, and of course people
fought to make it remain that way. Of course we all agree--that was wrong.
Slavery was and is wrong. Period.

Now, how much creditability would one give towards someone back then who was
participating in it and saying something like "don't judge me, if you don't
live the slavery of the south you can always leave." Of course that was
true--and even when it wasn't, the Underground Railroad flourished for the
very reason people didn't want to be oppressed, and good for them--but
ultimately, was the south just allowed to keep doing things that way? Of
course not. They were MADE to change, and they should've.

Now, does this mean the western US should be MADE to not be aloof &
indifferent? No. And certainly slavery is far worse than aloofness and
indifference. Still, just as slavery was wrong and people didn't just leave
the south but spoke out against how wrong slavery was, so will I with things
which I see as being wrong. And you will NEVER convince me that the
aloofness and indifference of many westerners, it's just WRONG. Not as wrong
as slavery, of course not. But it's still wrong, and just as slavery was
spoken out against, so will this be.

Some things shouldn't be left alone under the heading of "not judging." If
people are living wrong, then frankly they need to be told, they don't have
the right to expect to not be told about it. Do they deserve freedom from
persecution? Of course. But this thing where modern culture teaches that if
you love someone that you're just supposed to accept anything another person
wants to do? No way! By the way, those words came from our preacher, himself
a guy of the west. So THERE. In some avenues, even from a non-southerner, if
you live wrong, you're going to hear about it. And that's how it's SUPPOSED
to be.

So, in short (too late), I will embrace those friends of mine who epitomize
the southern hospitalities and be thankful for them--and not allow myself to
be bitter towards those who didn't. But that said, I won't fail to tell
those who didn't the wrongness of their ways, and if they laugh at me and
think I'm a loser--fine. But they are going to hear the truth whether they
like it or not. I will NOT be leaving the west at this point, and I will NOT
keep my mouth shut regarding such insanity. They may have the right to live
aloof & indifferent--stupid as it is--but I have just as much right to speak
out against it, whether or not anyone's listening. And I will never stop
doing that.

Bye.
Dave Thompson
2004-09-29 04:24:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
The extremely defensive reactions of many here defending the aloof and
indifferent way they deal with others in the west basically long ago
confirmed my suspicion. Obviously there IS a fuddy-duddy way things are
done around here, with regards to people being so aloof and having such
unbelievable boundaries they set up regarding they way they fiercely--to a
ridiculous extreme--protect their precious privacy.
So a troll bails in typical troll fashion.

"I don't have to account for my position so fuck you."

Bye bye, troll. You didn't accomplish what you thought you did.

And fuck the south. Bunch of inbred bible thumping shitheads.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
I thought it was just me, but others observing in agreement with me that
this is indeed the case--to say nothing of those in this thread who so
strongly believe in this ridiculous notion of "space" to that extreme,
confirm it wasn't just me.
Well like I said, the proper response--beyond calling people on the
carpet, which at times IS proper--is to embrace those who epitomize the
southern hospitality around here, and be thankful for them. The
rest--well, what can I say? They epitomize behavior which clearly is
unfortunate, but why waste time with them when others who are more than
willing to be REAL friends to you are available even right here--gasp--in
the west?
The thing is, bitterness can pollute your life. If I remain bitter towards
those who wronged me in that manner, I make myself no good for the rest
who remain with whom good friendships can be struck up. As I said, who
wants to hear someone whine & moan all the time? Not even me.
I will NEVER accept the western US being this way. NEVER. The words I've
heard from many about how they are so glad they live here because of not
being judged--in the end, you WILL be judged for how you live. Maybe
that's not my job, but it is to be done. At times, frankly, even we humans
need to call others on the carpet for things which are wrong.
I mean, I've heard so much about how the south supposedly has no place
saying anything because of its past. I hear of how racist it was. Now this
is the thing. Years ago, slavery was legal there, and of course people
fought to make it remain that way. Of course we all agree--that was wrong.
Slavery was and is wrong. Period.
Now, how much creditability would one give towards someone back then who
was participating in it and saying something like "don't judge me, if you
don't live the slavery of the south you can always leave." Of course that
was true--and even when it wasn't, the Underground Railroad flourished for
the very reason people didn't want to be oppressed, and good for them--but
ultimately, was the south just allowed to keep doing things that way? Of
course not. They were MADE to change, and they should've.
Now, does this mean the western US should be MADE to not be aloof &
indifferent? No. And certainly slavery is far worse than aloofness and
indifference. Still, just as slavery was wrong and people didn't just
leave the south but spoke out against how wrong slavery was, so will I
with things which I see as being wrong. And you will NEVER convince me
that the aloofness and indifference of many westerners, it's just WRONG.
Not as wrong as slavery, of course not. But it's still wrong, and just as
slavery was spoken out against, so will this be.
Some things shouldn't be left alone under the heading of "not judging." If
people are living wrong, then frankly they need to be told, they don't
have the right to expect to not be told about it. Do they deserve freedom
from persecution? Of course. But this thing where modern culture teaches
that if you love someone that you're just supposed to accept anything
another person wants to do? No way! By the way, those words came from our
preacher, himself a guy of the west. So THERE. In some avenues, even from
a non-southerner, if you live wrong, you're going to hear about it. And
that's how it's SUPPOSED to be.
So, in short (too late), I will embrace those friends of mine who
epitomize the southern hospitalities and be thankful for them--and not
allow myself to be bitter towards those who didn't. But that said, I won't
fail to tell those who didn't the wrongness of their ways, and if they
laugh at me and think I'm a loser--fine. But they are going to hear the
truth whether they like it or not. I will NOT be leaving the west at this
point, and I will NOT keep my mouth shut regarding such insanity. They may
have the right to live aloof & indifferent--stupid as it is--but I have
just as much right to speak out against it, whether or not anyone's
listening. And I will never stop doing that.
Bye.
Serious Sam
2004-09-29 04:52:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Thompson
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
The extremely defensive reactions of many here defending the aloof and
indifferent way they deal with others in the west basically long ago
confirmed my suspicion. Obviously there IS a fuddy-duddy way things are
done around here, with regards to people being so aloof and having such
unbelievable boundaries they set up regarding they way they fiercely--to a
ridiculous extreme--protect their precious privacy.
So a troll bails in typical troll fashion.
"I don't have to account for my position so fuck you."
Bye bye, troll. You didn't accomplish what you thought you did.
And fuck the south. Bunch of inbred bible thumping shitheads.
Right on Dave!
Dave Thompson
2004-09-29 06:15:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Serious Sam
Post by Dave Thompson
Bye bye, troll. You didn't accomplish what you thought you did.
And fuck the south. Bunch of inbred bible thumping shitheads.
Right on Dave!
I think my beliefs can be summed up in this one simple cartoon.

Party on, Sam.

http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war28.html

count 6 down.
Serious Sam
2004-09-29 16:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Thompson
Post by Serious Sam
Post by Dave Thompson
Bye bye, troll. You didn't accomplish what you thought you did.
And fuck the south. Bunch of inbred bible thumping shitheads.
Right on Dave!
I think my beliefs can be summed up in this one simple cartoon.
Ya, yer beliefs are simple all right - left wing simple.

Go knock back a few mint juleps and bother yer neighbors moron, you're
clearly *not* western material.
Serious Sam
2004-09-29 04:47:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
The extremely defensive reactions of many here defending the aloof and
indifferent way they deal with others in the west basically long ago
confirmed my suspicion.
So you came in with preconceptions, stirred the pot a bit, then left
with preconceptions...unremarkable.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Obviously there IS a fuddy-duddy way things are done
around here,
Roflol - that's an odd pejorative to choose, if anything I think
Westerners are rather unconventional vis a vis the old line status quo.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
with regards to people being so aloof and having such
unbelievable boundaries they set up regarding they way they fiercely--to a
ridiculous extreme--protect their precious privacy.
Funny thing about privacy...you can never have too much...and once you
lose it, it's gone.

I guess most rights are like that though...
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
I thought it was just me, but others observing in agreement with me that
this is indeed the case--to say nothing of those in this thread who so
strongly believe in this ridiculous notion of "space" to that extreme,
confirm it wasn't just me.
Didn't ya ever see any westerns growing up? The idea of space and the
west are intimately linked.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Well like I said, the proper response--beyond calling people on the carpet,
which at times IS proper--is to embrace those who epitomize the southern
hospitality around here, and be thankful for them.
If that's what flips yer trigger, go fer it. That's no different than
anywhere else though, most folks tend to clan up according to beliefs
and interests.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
The rest--well, what can
I say? They epitomize behavior which clearly is unfortunate,
The unfortunate thing is that you pass judgment on them.

I rather doubt anyone has been cutting your telephone lines, hammering
your doors shut, or trying to keep you outta their front yard.

You got a burr under yer saddle and instead of being decent enough to
climb off, reset your rigging, and make things right you're going to
just ride on and make the horse pay.

See we westerners know a thing or three about "dudes" and their uppity ways.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
but why waste
time with them when others who are more than willing to be REAL friends to
you are available even right here--gasp--in the west?
Ya, why look at yerself and ask why yer such an ass munch and looking
down yer nose at folks when you can just sit there and cast stones.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
The thing is, bitterness can pollute your life. If I remain bitter towards
those who wronged me in that manner, I make myself no good for the rest who
remain with whom good friendships can be struck up. As I said, who wants to
hear someone whine & moan all the time? Not even me.
Yet here ya still are, pissin' and a moanin' and at some considerable
length.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
I will NEVER accept the western US being this way. NEVER. The words I've
heard from many about how they are so glad they live here because of not
being judged--in the end, you WILL be judged for how you live. Maybe that's
not my job, but it is to be done. At times, frankly, even we humans need to
call others on the carpet for things which are wrong.
But not you of course, you couldn't possibly be the one who's outta step
with the place ya live...
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
I mean, I've heard so much about how the south supposedly has no place
saying anything because of its past. I hear of how racist it was. Now this
is the thing. Years ago, slavery was legal there, and of course people
fought to make it remain that way. Of course we all agree--that was wrong.
Slavery was and is wrong. Period.
Non sequitur.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Now, how much creditability would one give towards someone back then who was
participating in it and saying something like "don't judge me, if you don't
live the slavery of the south you can always leave." Of course that was
true--and even when it wasn't, the Underground Railroad flourished for the
very reason people didn't want to be oppressed, and good for them--but
ultimately, was the south just allowed to keep doing things that way? Of
course not. They were MADE to change, and they should've.
Non sequitur.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Now, does this mean the western US should be MADE to not be aloof &
indifferent? No. And certainly slavery is far worse than aloofness and
indifference. Still, just as slavery was wrong and people didn't just leave
the south but spoke out against how wrong slavery was, so will I with things
which I see as being wrong. And you will NEVER convince me that the
aloofness and indifference of many westerners, it's just WRONG. Not as wrong
as slavery, of course not. But it's still wrong, and just as slavery was
spoken out against, so will this be.
Course you didn't even waste an ounce of yer judgmental breath replying
to my very positive experiences when I moved to Az.

No surprise though, you have your own preconceptions to feed, and dang
but they're hongry!
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Some things shouldn't be left alone under the heading of "not judging." If
people are living wrong, then frankly they need to be told, they don't have
the right to expect to not be told about it. Do they deserve freedom from
persecution? Of course. But this thing where modern culture teaches that if
you love someone that you're just supposed to accept anything another person
wants to do? No way! By the way, those words came from our preacher, himself
a guy of the west. So THERE. In some avenues, even from a non-southerner, if
you live wrong, you're going to hear about it. And that's how it's SUPPOSED
to be.
I have a feeling lots a folks have been hearing from you about how
they're "living wrong"...

Am I about right on that one ace?
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
So, in short (too late), I will embrace those friends of mine who epitomize
the southern hospitalities and be thankful for them--and not allow myself to
be bitter towards those who didn't
Ya, we already heard that one several pages back...
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
But that said, I won't fail to tell
those who didn't the wrongness of their ways, and if they laugh at me and
think I'm a loser--fine. But they are going to hear the truth whether they
like it or not. I will NOT be leaving the west at this point, and I will NOT
keep my mouth shut regarding such insanity. They may have the right to live
aloof & indifferent--stupid as it is--but I have just as much right to speak
out against it, whether or not anyone's listening. And I will never stop
doing that.
Bye.
Yer about as pompous and ill-tempered a "dude" as we seen in these parts
for some good time. Why if'n I didn't know better I'd think nobody ever
taught ya how to comb jumping cholla outta yer sneakers with an afro pick.

No matter, there's all manner of creatures in these parts, and being a
desert most of 'em keep to themselves during the days. They've got tough
exteriors, a few thorns, some bite or sting, but all are functional
parts of a vibrant, though unforgiving ecosystem.

It's my reckoning a "dude" like you, despite yer stubborness (a western
trait) is gonna keep shooting off yer hog leg until you draw some
attention. Thing is it might not be all you had it made out to be.

So I'll leave ya with a .wav file from one of my favorite flics.

Maybe ya learn something, maybe not.

Happy trails "dude"...

http://funwavs.com/wavfile.php?quote=4151&sound=271
Joetheone
2004-09-29 12:25:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
The extremely defensive reactions of many here defending the aloof and
indifferent way they deal with others in the west basically long ago
confirmed my suspicion. Obviously there IS a fuddy-duddy way things are done
around here, with regards to people being so aloof and having such
unbelievable boundaries they set up regarding they way they fiercely--to a
ridiculous extreme--protect their precious privacy.
I thought it was just me, but others observing in agreement with me that
this is indeed the case--to say nothing of those in this thread who so
strongly believe in this ridiculous notion of "space" to that extreme,
confirm it wasn't just me.
Well like I said, the proper response--beyond calling people on the carpet,
which at times IS proper--is to embrace those who epitomize the southern
hospitality around here, and be thankful for them. The rest--well, what can
I say? They epitomize behavior which clearly is unfortunate, but why waste
time with them when others who are more than willing to be REAL friends to
you are available even right here--gasp--in the west?
The thing is, bitterness can pollute your life. If I remain bitter towards
those who wronged me in that manner, I make myself no good for the rest who
remain with whom good friendships can be struck up. As I said, who wants to
hear someone whine & moan all the time? Not even me.
I will NEVER accept the western US being this way. NEVER. The words I've
heard from many about how they are so glad they live here because of not
being judged--in the end, you WILL be judged for how you live. Maybe that's
not my job, but it is to be done. At times, frankly, even we humans need to
call others on the carpet for things which are wrong.
I mean, I've heard so much about how the south supposedly has no place
saying anything because of its past. I hear of how racist it was. Now this
is the thing. Years ago, slavery was legal there, and of course people
fought to make it remain that way. Of course we all agree--that was wrong.
Slavery was and is wrong. Period.
Now, how much creditability would one give towards someone back then who was
participating in it and saying something like "don't judge me, if you don't
live the slavery of the south you can always leave." Of course that was
true--and even when it wasn't, the Underground Railroad flourished for the
very reason people didn't want to be oppressed, and good for them--but
ultimately, was the south just allowed to keep doing things that way? Of
course not. They were MADE to change, and they should've.
Now, does this mean the western US should be MADE to not be aloof &
indifferent? No. And certainly slavery is far worse than aloofness and
indifference. Still, just as slavery was wrong and people didn't just leave
the south but spoke out against how wrong slavery was, so will I with things
which I see as being wrong. And you will NEVER convince me that the
aloofness and indifference of many westerners, it's just WRONG. Not as wrong
as slavery, of course not. But it's still wrong, and just as slavery was
spoken out against, so will this be.
Some things shouldn't be left alone under the heading of "not judging." If
people are living wrong, then frankly they need to be told, they don't have
the right to expect to not be told about it. Do they deserve freedom from
persecution? Of course. But this thing where modern culture teaches that if
you love someone that you're just supposed to accept anything another person
wants to do? No way! By the way, those words came from our preacher, himself
a guy of the west. So THERE. In some avenues, even from a non-southerner, if
you live wrong, you're going to hear about it. And that's how it's SUPPOSED
to be.
So, in short (too late), I will embrace those friends of mine who epitomize
the southern hospitalities and be thankful for them--and not allow myself to
be bitter towards those who didn't. But that said, I won't fail to tell
those who didn't the wrongness of their ways, and if they laugh at me and
think I'm a loser--fine. But they are going to hear the truth whether they
like it or not. I will NOT be leaving the west at this point, and I will NOT
keep my mouth shut regarding such insanity. They may have the right to live
aloof & indifferent--stupid as it is--but I have just as much right to speak
out against it, whether or not anyone's listening. And I will never stop
doing that.
Bye.
I'm pretty certain I'd make sure you got the idea that I didn't want your
whiny popping around. But, then, most people are more tactful than me, and
would try to spare your feelings.
--
~JR~
4more4W
2004-09-30 21:55:15 UTC
Permalink
Now that I have lived here in AZ for awhile, I have definitely decided I
will be aloof and distant. I ain't talking to anyone either.

Loading...